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Assaults On The Definition Of Marriage

July 4, 2013

To The Reader’s Forum: The rapid unrelenting assaults on the definition of marriage understandably make many concerned....

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(92)

apologeticsnow

Jul-16-13 3:24 PM

So, at what poitn does the definition of marriage stop expanding? It's just a question, not a judgment on anything or anyone. Can you answer it?

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apologeticsnow

Jul-15-13 6:22 PM

Monkey, you say,"Nobody is pushing for undoing marriage's definition, just expanding it." So, at what point does it stop expanding?

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50s4ever

Jul-13-13 5:24 PM

Further proof we have not fully evolved from monkeys.

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50s4ever

Jul-12-13 6:41 PM

Religion held people together so well, Hitler and Stalin had to destroy it and make the government the religion. Just BHO and his ho ho's now.

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apologeticsnow

Jul-12-13 4:27 PM

If there were people saying that out-of-wedlock births are good for society as marriage is and divorce is also as good as marriage, then I would. What's the point of even arguing against something that doesn;t even exist? Is there a movement afoot to make divorce something that is good for society or out of wedlock births just as good for society as marriage is?

Besides, a major issue with me is the utter lack of logic used to justify undoing the definition of marriage. I don't have to point the logical phoniness being perpetrated by divorce as there is in undoing the definition of marriage. For example, you can't knock the logic I use in my letter to expose the shallow logic of those pushing for undoing marriage's definition. What are you going to say, Monkeyboy, to those who want to use the same logic for their relationships the homosexuals have used to justify theirs?

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apologeticsnow

Jul-12-13 4:16 PM

Em, that's a lot of arbitrary rhetoric I see in your response. It's your opinion that it is prejudice. Just point out the paragraph and/or sentences in my letter which are prejudice. I don;t know what you mean when you say that I'm being prejudice in my letter when you refuse to point out the sentence and/or paragraph that is prejudice. When you write down the wiki's definition of prejudice, that is not pointing out the sentence and/or paragraph in my letter that you insinuate is bigoted/prejudice. I answer your question by disagreeing with you that I'm prejudice. You say that I'm prejudice. That's your opinion. Now can you specifically point it out by noting the sentences and paragraphs in the letter that are prejudicial?

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50s4ever

Jul-11-13 5:37 PM

If bigotry is prejudging people Em you are certainly a bigot.

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Emelye

Jul-11-13 1:17 PM

I see you dodged my question as quickly as I seemingly dodged yours, apologeticsnow, but in truth, I answered what you asked. You ask where is the bigotry, I ask that bigotry is defined by prejudice and asked where your letter was prejudging LGB people. It's in there, plain to see if you look honestly, but that's the last thing you seem to be able to, or want to, do when discussing this subject.

Your poor manipulation of the Socratic method is very obvious. I won't fall into your rhetorical traps. I will, however, point them out now and then, just to show others how intellectually bankrupt your animosity and aversion to LGBT people really is.

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apologeticsnow

Jul-10-13 10:03 PM

prejudging what?

Is my letter bigoted and if so, exactly what?

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Emelye

Jul-10-13 4:37 PM

Wikipedia presents things pretty clearly:

"Bigotry is the state of mind of a bigot: someone who, as a result of their prejudices, treats other people with hatred, contempt, or intolerance on the basis of a person's ethnicity, religion, national origin, gender, sexual orientation, disability, socioeconomic status, or other characteristics." ht tp://en.wikipedia.or g/wiki/Bigotry

The operative word is "prejudice," isn't it? So, you tell us, Rev. - is there anything in your letter that illustrates prejudgment?

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apologeticsnow

Jul-09-13 9:09 PM

Em, so nothing in my letter was in any way bigoted, right?

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Emelye

Jul-08-13 11:53 PM

Another educational tidbit:

"Description of Red Herring

A Red Herring is a fallacy in which an irrelevant topic is presented in order to divert attention from the original issue. The basic idea is to "win" an argument by leading attention away from the argument and to another topic. This sort of "reasoning" has the following form:

Topic A (marriage equality) is under discussion. Topic B (who is calling whom a bigot) is introduced under the guise of being relevant to topic A (when topic B is actually not relevant to topic A). Topic A is abandoned. This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because merely changing the topic of discussion hardly counts as an argument against a claim."

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Emelye

Jul-08-13 11:22 PM

Far from throwing that term around to anyone who disagrees with me, I haven't called anyone a bigot. Read my posts again. Slowly. Think about it. Do you need to have the dictionary definition posted again? Did you not read or did you forget the definition?

50s4ever, my inner, core identity is NOT a profession. What does that have to do with marriage equality anyway?

Seadog, a person's sexual orientation does not have much to do with their gender identity. Trans people come in straight, gay, bi and asexual versions, just like cisgender people. It's judged by who they really are (their target, not assigned sex) and who they are romantically attracted to.

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apologeticsnow

Jul-08-13 9:35 PM

As Em, henryH and others who agree with them label us whose opinions disagree with theirs, would they kindly point out a bigoted statement or paragraph in this letter and explain exactly why it is bigoted?

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50s4ever

Jul-08-13 5:21 PM

Yes Em you prove over and over you are a bigot. Since it's your profession I guess you officially changed to LTBG putting gay at the tail end of the acronym and your favs up front?

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Emelye

Jul-08-13 4:49 PM

"The day before Obama changed his mind on gay marriage neither one of us was intolerant. The day he changed his mind, that made me intolerant to some. Again, why?"

"Emelye-True, many were called intolerant before Obama changed his mind. But I don't remember him being called a bigot, hater and all those other things like many are called today who believe marraige is between a man and a woman."

This tactic is known as "moving the goalposts." One comment is refuted and then a similar but more extreme comment is introduced as being a reason the refutation was invalid. It's a fallacy and indicates a losing position.

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Emelye

Jul-08-13 4:43 PM

If you didn't hear those words before Mr Obama changed his mind then you weren't listening, bluesman.

I suppose he wasn't called a hater because he did a lot of other things for the LTBG community that didn't involve marriage equality but when he angered the community he was very loudly called out. Of course, who called Mr Obama what and when isn't the point, is it? The point was about your willing ignorance of the fact that anti-gay people and organizations used very bigoted language and rhetoric, earning the title of bigots.

If someone says bigoted things and promotes bigoted policies then why shouldn't people call them a bigot?

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section6fan

Jul-08-13 3:41 PM

bluesman, I can respect your position. I realize many see the definition of marriage as only between a man and a woman. For many years I did too. And then it got personal -- I saw the pain it brought to some people I care deeply for and I admit my position 'evolved.' I saw how difficult it was for them to live by 'don't ask, don't tell'; to keep their feelings secret in fear of wearing the 'scarlet letter' and being rejected by family, friends, their church, workplace, and community; to be condemned, criticized and vilified like so many posters are doing on this forum. For what? For wanting to marry and be committed to someone you love? In many ways, this debate has brought back into focus the value of marriage. If it's an institution worth fighting for, maybe we heterosexuals shouldn't take it for granted; maybe we should respect it a lot more than we do. Divorce, extra-marital affairs, domestic violence....these are much bigger assaults on the sanctity of marriage.

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Emelye

Jul-08-13 3:36 PM

I have to laugh when I see people running the, "You're being intolerant of my intolerance and that makes YOU a bigot," gag. It's one of the favorite, although painfully dumb, arguments we hear from those who have conniptions at the thought of LGBT people being equal to them.

I haven't seen any protests and petitions to make polygamy and incest legal yet, 50s4ever. Where did you get your crystal ball? Something tells me it came out of your untethered to reality imagination.

Those opposing marriage equality were labeled intolerant LONG before Mr Obama publicly changed his mind. Claiming otherwise is an exercise in ignoring reality.

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section6fan

Jul-07-13 10:53 PM

outcastes.

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section6fan

Jul-07-13 10:51 PM

Rev. Mel, a.k.a.apologitcsnow, it causes me great concern that a pastor would write a letter such as this, knowing it will create the vitriolic rhetoric it has. You want to protect and defend your definition of marriage, fine. But you & the posters who support you have publicly equated homosexuality to evil, mental illness, sin, shamefulness, incest, polygamy, pedophilia, etc., etc. If that doesn't define bigotry, I don't know what does. Have you ever considered that there are many gay men and women who aren't the hyper-sexualized, parade marching, attention seeking people you and your allies accuse them of being? Many merely want what you & I have the freedom to do....marry their soulmate, spend life together, care for one another, raise a family, worship together, and grow old together. Why does that concern you so or weaken our country? Why is that elevated to a 'sin' that is so detestable to you, that you feel it worthy enough, as a pastor, to make gays feel like ou

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HenryH

Jul-07-13 6:55 PM

Doggie, are you homophobic?

Peanut Gallery:: I'm offering 5:2 odds that Doggie cannot answer the question truthfully.

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HenryH

Jul-07-13 6:52 PM

Thanks for proving me right, Blueboy! I can rest easy knowing you are predictably incapable.

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HenryH

Jul-07-13 4:19 PM

Bluesman, you are Credence with a new username. You should get a new playbook. The same ignorant retorts over and over and over. Try again! Or, are you incapable of having a clear retort? I'm betting you are incapable until you prove us otherwise but your retort to me will be to yet another non-germane argument. Prove me wrong Blueboy!

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HenryH

Jul-07-13 3:58 PM

Bluesman, you are keeping very poor company in drawing up the Ignorant Trio to serve yourself justification.

Why do you use such an ignorant approach to your debate? Drawing on a secondary question and removing focus from the central question is textbook politician approach. Are you a politician? Drop the noise about the flag and say something clearly argued about marriage.

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