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Corporate Profits Do Not Guarantee Jobs

June 9, 2013

To The Reader’s Forum: James Buchanan recently opined that the U.S. should abolish the corporate income tax....

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(29)

ironyoozesfromyouryap

Jun-13-13 9:26 AM

"Everyones spending is someone else's income."

Not when it comes to investments, banks, and corporations, unfortunately. Reminds me of the stock market and how in the slide in 2007-2008 the average investor/homebuyer had their assets crater.

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DavidVA

Jun-12-13 10:55 AM

irony,

I'll only disagree with one thing you wrote: you actually can recycle wasteful spending.

Everyones spending is someone else's income. For everyone to have an income, recycling in mandatory, and is assured ... unless the rules are rigged to allow a small group to capture the spending and sit on it.

Have you asked yourself why we let unearned income be taxed so little? No matter how large they are, captial gains, dividends and carried interest (don't get me started on that one) are treated to a rate of 20% after exclusions (the exclusions are taxed at zero). If you are a billionaire, it's easy to accumulate ... and sit on it.

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DavidVA

Jun-12-13 10:46 AM

Brent1,

As usuual, we learned a lesson in the past, and now we apply it incorrectly. The Smoot-Hawley tariff nearly killed our industries after it was enacted in 1930, because we were the worlds largest exporter at the time. Other countries responded with tariffs, and we took a bigger hit than they did.

Today, we don't export nearly as much as we import, and part of that is due to countries like China who make their exports cheap thorough currency manipulation. It's no longer 1930. Today, tariffs make a lot of sense ... and they should be focused on the offenders like China and, to a lesser extent, Korea and Germany who are cheating.

Will this fix everything? No. We still have a business community that thinks their employees are expendable. That's another issue for another time ... and too complicated to address here. But the tariffs will help a lot. Let's try them first.

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ironyoozesfromyouryap

Jun-12-13 10:08 AM

"Do you know why art metal closed? Do you know why dahlstroms closed, or AVM or watsons or blackstone?"

Because Americans chose to spend their money on foreign-made goods made by children for .05 a day (and still do). Globalization and the industrialization of third-world countries. If you think your "high taxes" are the cause of that, you're nuts. I'd like to see you volunteer to get paid the wage of an Indian. You'd be swinging like a pendulum demanding progressive, liberal workers' rights.

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ironyoozesfromyouryap

Jun-12-13 10:06 AM

Economics has been over-simplified by ideologues (especially on the right). Economics is a myriad of complexities; NYS has borne a decline in the midst of those complexities. To reduce it in such simple terms is doing a laughably poor disservice to the truth. For example, the Erie Canal/transportation systems were just a part of the nature of NYS decline.

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ironyoozesfromyouryap

Jun-12-13 10:03 AM

Brent - one train can haul up to ONE HUNDRED TIMES the cargo a truck can. And if you don't have a clue on how the decline of the Erie Canal and later railroads for shipping affected upstate economics then I would highly and fervently suggest a library for you.

Unfortunately, this whole "high taxes are bad!" concept is not true historically, let alone the fact that taxes really aren't that high. Relatively, not objectively.

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Brent1

Jun-11-13 8:52 AM

Irony, trucks replaced the rail, erie canal, etc. we have never had a transportation problem in western NY.

Do you know why art metal closed? Do you know why dahlstroms closed, or AVM or watsons or blackstone?

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ironyoozesfromyouryap

Jun-11-13 8:34 AM

David - right on the money.

"Why we allow this is beyond me."

We allow it because we waste piles of our wages and income and then look up in the sky like we are clueless asking, "why can't I get by?" The government wastes because the government is made up of people who waste; Americans waste so much food, tangible possessions, we have debt up to the ceiling and it is encouraged (how many people do you know bought a vehicle with cash?), etc. The first observation is a society that wastes so much wealth will die. You cannot recycle wasted wealth.

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ironyoozesfromyouryap

Jun-11-13 8:31 AM

"I dont need to read or be told about the decline of western NY over the last 50 yrs, I lived it."

Then it shouldn't be so hard for you to know the causes, should it? I already stated facts and you did not rebuke them, you side-stepped them. The Erie Canal did not close because of high taxes. Railroads didn't stop because of high taxes. Furniture didn't disappear because of high taxes. C'mon man.

"Did you notice Texas is advertising for businesses to move there?"

Did you notice Texas has a 200 billion state debt?

Did you notice Texas is massive?

Did you notice Texas is full of oil?

Did you notice Texas is a bigger taker of Federal government monies than NY?

heh...heh...

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Brent1

Jun-11-13 7:32 AM

David, i agree with much of your comment but how do we Americans stop the exodus, thats the problem. How do we compete in a world market?

Are businesses leaving because they hate America or is it easier for them to achieve there purpose to create profit?

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DavidVA

Jun-10-13 9:27 PM

Brent,

You missed the exodus if you think that it stopped in the south. Yes, so called right to work states have diminished the ability of labor to do much (and that's a large part of why the economy stinks, btw), but the jobs only stopped here on the way further south (Mexico) and from there to China and eventually they'll go to Africa.

Why we allow this is beyond me. It's destroying the very thing that makes success possible. Ask Henry Ford. He knew that high wages made good customers. Now, we just screw the working person to their workplace, throw them a few kibbles and demand work-work-work. Of course, there is no one to buy any of this stuff, so we lay them off. Now there are even fewer customers, and the business people whine that things are just do hard, so they need a few concessions (called welfare when the little people get it).

Sorry, I'm not buying.

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DavidVA

Jun-10-13 9:15 PM

First, I'm far too liberal to be an Obama supporter. With the exception of the ACA, he's GWB's 3rd and 4th term. It's a bit stunning that he did so well in fund raising (small donations primarily) and in vote count, but he had the great good fortune to run against the most class unconscious politician since GHWB and his miraculous encounter with a grocery store scanner.

The GOP can't even raise money well anymore. It's pathetic.

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Brent1

Jun-10-13 6:03 PM

Texas is advertising low taxes and less regulations than in NYS, if these are not a reason to leave NYS, we have nothing to worry about.

I wonder how California feels about that now?

Then there are the fracting "Boom" states (why do they call it "Boom"?) Well, NYS and its regulations alone that are STOPING any Boom here.. (I know, regulations dont matter)

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Brent1

Jun-10-13 5:35 PM

Obama raised 715,677,692, Romney raised $446,135,997

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Brent1

Jun-10-13 5:30 PM

David, if contributions buy votes and corrupt, who received the most contributions in the last election Republicans or democrats?

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Brent1

Jun-10-13 5:26 PM

ironyoozesfromyouryap, I dont need to read or be told about the decline of western NY over the last 50 yrs, I lived it. High taxes and regulations and high labor cost demands (art metal and many other companies) either closed or left the area. Jamestown used to be the furniture capital of the world, now its in high point NC..

Did you notice Texas is advertising for businesses to move there? We will see how that works out.

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Brent1

Jun-10-13 5:18 PM

Sueann said, Unions are tax exempt, take in millions, are Corporations and are the democrats biggest donor.

The only error in your statement was unions dont have to be incorporated.

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DavidVA

Jun-10-13 3:35 PM

My apologies for the lack of editing prior to my last post. I hit "Post Comment" by accident, and that was that. I think it still makes the points I wished to make. It's just a sloppy read.

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DavidVA

Jun-10-13 3:31 PM

Unions are not and never have been corporatons. They can't be. They might qualify as NGOs, if we allowed it. We don't.

As fara s being contributors to the Democrats, then keep in mind that the largest union contributins com from SEIU, which consists of janitors, maids and the like. I'm sure they can really afford large bribes - much more than worlds 6th and 7th wealthiest people and GOP stalwart supporters David and Charles Koch. After all, they only have a joint fortume of $68 Billion ... and they hate any to the left of Mitt Romney, piker that HE is.

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DavidVA

Jun-10-13 3:17 PM

You have to love it. Someone whining about unions in a country that has about 7% of the workforce unionized. Yeah, they're the problem alright. <EYEROLL>

Just compare that to highly unionized and highly successful Germany. They keep their jobs because their industires aren't treated like sacred cows. They're expected to be good citizens. So are their leaders.

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ironyoozesfromyouryap

Jun-09-13 9:54 PM

Also, taxes often did not predate manufacturing decline. They were a result of manufacturing decline. Constricting revenues leads to an increase in taxes.

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ironyoozesfromyouryap

Jun-09-13 9:53 PM

"We in upstate nys should know all about that, buffalo, jamestown, olean, rochester are mere goasts of what they were 50 yrs ago"

I would suggest you do research on the causes of manufacturing decline, Brent. It had almost nothing to do with taxes and everything to do with a myriad of other issues.

The whole "tax drives businesses away" concept is a paper concept and not a real one. The reason NYS is dying is based largely on the decline of the transportation systems that built it (Erie Canal, Great Lakes, Hudson, Allegany River) and the industries that pushed it forward (Grain elevators, Furniture, Steel, Autos, Kodak, etc.)

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sueanne

Jun-09-13 9:08 AM

Mrinbetween, I'm not blaming anyone, I'm making a statement that happens to be true.

Unions are tax exempt, take in millions, are Corporations and are the democrats biggest donor.

I guess that makes it ok with you?

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duckster

Jun-09-13 9:03 AM

It has always been possible to sway elections with money. Under Citizens United it is now legal. Plurality in our Government is now dead.

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mrinbetween

Jun-09-13 8:57 AM

Sueann, only 10% of workers now belong to unions. A few years ago it was 30%. Time to look for someone else to blame I think.

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