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Public Hearing Held On CLCS, Maple Grove Football ‘Merger’

January 9, 2013

Last month’s proposal that the football programs at Chautauqua Lake Central School and Maple Grove Junior-Senior High School be merged is anything but finalize....

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(49)

section6fan

Jan-11-13 12:30 PM

No slam from me Wakeup. I agree with you. The toughest sell on this whole thing is asking people to accept a new merged identity for the team while hanging onto separate identities for the rest of the school. It is a classic battle of the head and the heart. Sure, the head accepts all the logical arguments on cost, safety, size, etc. -- but the heart remembers the past, and tradition and the pride for the brand built up over years.....and for me, the logical arguments aren't worth letting that go, especially when the merge may can be reviewed annually and therefore, may be temporary. Completely merging the schools would make it a final and cleaner break with the old and acceptance of the new. For me personally, that would be easier to accept than a partial merge for sports only.

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mrinbetween

Jan-11-13 12:19 PM

Face it, this is never going to happen if it is to be a 50/50 split.

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PleaseWakeUp

Jan-11-13 9:30 AM

Maple Grove with Cassadaga Westfield with Chautauqua Lake which I don't understand why it didn't happen to begin with. Frewsburg and Falconer Heres another one, Randolph with Catt-LV. All that land in Napoli that could have been used to create a great district. But, since that one is over, Pine Valley and Randolph. Forestville and Silver Creek. Sherman and Clymer. This is just a quick map. I am sure there could be many more. We're wasting effort on sports when our schools and education should be primary!

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PleaseWakeUp

Jan-11-13 9:27 AM

Sammy, I was going to stay out of this too, but people, your talking about sports instead of the real problem which is school cost. Lets look across the region and work on combining schools. Only My thought which will get slammed, but.....

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sammy128

Jan-11-13 8:48 AM

Told myself I was going to stay off of this but here I am. Ironhorse. I respect tradition, family, community pride..all of that. But I will point on thing out that you said. You mentioned Coach Fisher several times and I respect what he has done there. He seems to be a huge part of the MG family. My question is to you if MG loves and respects him as you say then why dont they listen to him when he says this is a good idea? And Section6. I completely understand everything you said. I use the word arrogance alot but in a way its a compliment to the MG football community. Winning breads arragance. The stats mentioned here in this post are extremely impressive. I wish that we here at Chaut Lake could be or had the reason to be "arrogant" When I say arrogant its really not a slam although I know it sounds that way. I think everyone needs to take a step back and ask themselves what do the kids want. If we put all the kids in a room and they said no then ok. lets move on.

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section6fan

Jan-10-13 11:48 PM

-- no matter how convincing and logical the financial arguments for change may be. Football is an emotional sport. And we spend years developing that emotion, pride, spirit and attitude among players, parents and the entire community. It's often the special ingredient that helps win games and championships. So it's to be expected that people will want to fight for protecting it; it's a necessary and natural part of the evolution we seem to be headed towards. Perhaps with a merge, the future will be even better than the past -- but it's a tough sell. After all, the past has been a very sweet ride on Dutch Hollow.

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section6fan

Jan-10-13 11:28 PM

Griffin, thank you for clarifying some of the savings and Sammy, I respect your last post. At times I think I should stay out of these discussions, as my sons have long graduated from and aren't directly affected by these proposed changes. But at one time all three of us were part of the MG Football Family and had some experiences we'll remember for the rest of our lives. We all realize change is inevitable, but at Maple Grove we've had an amazing gridiron ride and a community doesn't just switch that off over night or even in a year. It takes some of us old, nostalgic folk a little more time to digest. And I'm sorry, but this kind of change does not only affect the current crop of players and their families. Maple Grove -- through its talented coaches & players, parents, fans and supportive community -- has created a football legacy. And it's difficult for many of us, both past and present, to see that legacy altered or changed forever --

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mrinbetween

Jan-10-13 4:20 PM

Odd that no one has commented on 6 man football. This would allow each school to keep its identity and a football program, both varsity and JV. Isn't this a viable solution. If you are worried about never making it to the Dome, if there is no combining of schools soon due to declining enrollment, there will end up being watered-down programs or no programs at all. It works very well in Nebraska and Texas, why couldn't it work in the declining populations of WNY?

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Gator71

Jan-10-13 1:13 PM

e, with a merger?

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Gator71

Jan-10-13 1:10 PM

Has anybody asked the players and the former player about their thoughts?...The few young men that I have knowledge of are in favor of merging...Parents seem to want to fight more than discuss...D football has been fantastic for the the last couple of decades...The quality of players that came out of Class D is phenomenal...If you could keep everything the same then I would say NO WAY to a merger...Reality is it will never be the same...Teams are already merging and what will be left a year or two down the road?...I am all for the best competition and what will make our kids and teams better...I think playing all the games local is a huge factor too...Salamanca might be the furthest drive...It would be great to see our kids play against Southwestern,Cassadaga Valley,Falconer,Fredonia,Randolph kids for decades to come.It's call "evolution"!We adults seem to fear the unknown more than our kids...

Other than the "losing the identity" thing what other faults are ther

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Griffin60

Jan-10-13 12:21 PM

Section6 ... The savings comes in various ways. Yes the coaching salaries for each school are part of it. Also the way it was proposed each school would bus kids two days a week to the other school for practice and if you add that up its four times a week not six. Each school would have two home games saving officials payment , chaperone payments , security payments , electrical (lights) cost , field maintenance cost....... Each school would bus to two away games not four. The new uniforms would come via a scheduled uniform purchase from CL no cost to MG.

Yes some 9th or 10th graders will be on varsity if they are skilled enough to safely compete , but most would be practicing and playing JV.

I think at both schools the coaching staff play the best players not the senior who thinks he would be entitled. So the parents on both teams are already conditioned to this philosophy.

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section6fan

Jan-10-13 11:26 AM

Has the merger discussion considered the diminished opportunity for many young men to play high school football? Currently, at the small D-size, we've all witnessed players (and their parents) already complain and get upset about lack of varsity playing time. A bigger talent pool only worsens this. If the emotionally-charged discussion on this forum is any indication of what's to come, imagine what's going to happen when an MG sophomore is knighted QB or RB over a CL senior who now sits the bench (and vice versa).

It's easy to say 'grow up' or to take the high road and support one another -- and I hope we would -- but reality requires considering the emotional price this change will require from everyone as well.

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section6fan

Jan-10-13 10:49 AM

I'm still not convinced a merge will even solve two of the main arguments for it. Yes it may create a larger pool of jv players and allow competition against larger schools, but will it really:

Save taxpayers money? Players will now be bussed 6 days a week to meet for practices and games; new uniforms/helmets with the newly formed colors and mascot logo will be purchased. Surely these added expenses will offset the small coaching stipends saved by combining staff.

Ensure safety? Young players who show talent and promise will still move up and play against older, stronger players. It has been this way from the beginning of high school sports and I don't ever see that changing unless its made illegal to do. Many MG all-staters started their varsity careers as freshmen, and I'm sure it's that way at most D and C schools.

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Ironhorse7439

Jan-10-13 9:27 AM

Just because MG has great players and wins alot people think we are a large school.There are 30 teams in class D in the state Smaller than MG and 49 larger. We are not beating up weaklings. Our Class D teams are some the best in the state. If these teams start combining some will be large enough to move to class C.

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Ironhorse7439

Jan-10-13 9:16 AM

Not true MG is one of the smaller schools. That is determined by a school’s bed # students from 3 grade levels. MG 188, CL 186, Randolph 237, Frewsburg 196, SC 232 Sherman/Ripley 193, Portville 221, Franklinville 178, CLV 233, Ellicottville 223,

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proconserv

Jan-10-13 8:57 AM

Ironhorse, there will be a lot less trips to the dome for your team once the other hs teams start merging too. Right now, MG competes against school MUCH smaller. This means a lot less of a pool to hand-pick their talent base from. I would enjoy watching MG, Randolph, SW, Fredonia, et. play teams such as Corry or North East, PA, who both have high powered offenses and very speedy defenses and would most certainly put a hurt on most, if not all, of our teams in Chaut Co.

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Ironhorse7439

Jan-10-13 8:49 AM

Coach Fischer cares about these kids and this family and we have something very special. Many of us would welcome CL into our family not because we don’t respect yours but because we love ours so much. I know if we can come to some compromise your kids and ours can do wonderful things even a trip to the dome.

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proconserv

Jan-10-13 8:49 AM

Carlaw, I agree with much of what you routinely state in your comments, but not this time. To people that know me, know better than what you stated as not being conservative, as I am certainly VERY conservative. I do not feel that you should do what's best for everyone, but by merging programs such as football (oh, and let's seriously consider other programs such as tennis, golf, bowling...) you are being conservative as less dollars will be spent. I am a HUGE fan of high school sports, and will enjoy watching my kids when they get older, competing at that level, but I also know that the schools and tax payers need to look at the BIG picture rather than worry about status quo...aka 50 years of identity.

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Ironhorse7439

Jan-10-13 8:48 AM

Sammy I am in no way trying to belittle the CL program or any of its players (I know there are some great players and a lot of pride there) but would like to offer some insight on why the MG fans are reacting the way they are. Coach Fischer started coaching in 1992 and in those 20 years has built this program into one of the very best in not only WNY but the state. These stats are not to brag but to show why our Family (yes that is what we call it) defends our identity so fiercely. We have 36 first team all-state players (2 class D player of the year), over 35 kids that have gone on to play some classification of college football, 9 players on WNY all-academic team, 1 losing season in 20 years an above 80% winning avg. 172-39, 14 trips to the ralph, 2 state championships, 7 WNY stat records and 8 in the state top 5. But beyond the stats we have each other our family. At the end of practice and games the team chant is not team or anything else but family. Coach Fischer cares about thes

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carlaw

Jan-10-13 8:28 AM

Proconserv I appreciate your point of view and you are absolutely right about the economic hardship that we are experiencing in addition to being the highest taxed place to live in the nation. However if you think the the whole is greater than than any of its parts or that what's best for everyone, I simply disagree, and you are NOT pro conservative.

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proconserv

Jan-10-13 8:01 AM

Carla Westerlund and everyone else, you need to take a serious look at what can be a benefit as a whole...not just MG district, CL District, etc. We are experiencing some serious economic hardships, and programs such as football will be cut for the benefit of what a school is really there for and that's education. Combine the football teams down the middle and be done with it.

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carlaw

Jan-10-13 6:34 AM

" Jan-09-13 6:24 AM Agree | Disagree Why no way! How childish, how immature, how uncaring to ensure that youg people have a JV team." No, Bobbo It is none of those things. It is the opinion of a taxpayer who has proudly supported the MG School system for almost 50 years and still does. Don't agree with it? Fine, but others are entitled to opinions and attitudes that don't agree with yours. Attacking others for having opinions? Now that's childish.

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sammy128

Jan-10-13 5:47 AM

section6. You have a good point. I apolagize. However you should know that there were people on the MG side that were also involved in the birth of this idea. it was not strictly a CL idea. I probably am guilty of some of the same bahavior that I accuse them of. However I also did come out and support this idea of the merger only because I know the kids want this to happen. Not just my kid, many kids on BOTH sides. We'll see what happens. Honestly, I hope it can be worked out in a fashion that everyone is happy and everyone can get along. I know I can swallow my pride for the benifit of the players

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section6fan

Jan-10-13 1:01 AM

Sammy, every post you've written has foreshadowed what you perceive as the difficult, close-minded 'attitude' of the parents of Maple Grove. Dude, take a look in the mirror. The tone of your posts are far from the open minded, conciliatory, 'lets-find-a-solution' parent you profess to be. This article reports on legitimate concerns that the Maple Grove community of students, parents and fans expressed at a meeting conducted at their school. They are certainly entitled to voicing their opinions on something that would be a major change for them under the terms you and CL propose.. Yet because their concerns and counter propsal are not in compliance with your terms, you publicly tell them 'they can kiss your a*** Please explain how your attitude is any more helpful than what you're criticizing them for?

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Ironhorse7439

Jan-09-13 9:04 PM

Random this is not the place for haters like you to make accusations with no proof of rules violations you don't know anything about. Just a bunch of rubbish.

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