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Face Evil On Three Fronts

January 7, 2013

To the Reader’s Forum: The horror of evil devastated Newtown, Conn.. We are left to cope with the fallout, agony, and questions gripping us....

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(33)

Jazzie

Jan-09-13 4:32 AM

He wouldn't freely admit he's wrong...shows his arrogance.

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MrFreeze

Jan-09-13 7:57 AM

I would at least hope people like Loner and Sea and even Mel would treat themselves to a few dozen counseling sessions, the poor fellas.

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Emelye

Jan-09-13 10:40 AM

Leae it to Mr McGinnis to generate a lot of heat. I notice he combines two issues, gun control and state supported religion, into one letter, confusing things and making a rather tenuous connection.

First of all, state supported prayer is schools is illegal. The first amendment says so and all courts have agreed. Religion and prayer are still allowed in public schools, of course. It's just that the school administration isn't allowed to push any particular one.

I agree that exploiting a tragedy such as what happened in Newtown, CT. for political gain is a problem. I just wonder why this letter condemned the practice at first and then did just that in a later paragraph to encourage people to violate the establishment clause of our first amendment.

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Emelye

Jan-09-13 10:48 AM

I agree that gun free zones, like schools, have little effect on people bent on committing mayhem and murder. I also think that most of the current suggestions for more gun control and firearms bans are off the mark and highly suspect.

I think having teachers who volunteer for such a task be trained and specially licensed, the way law enforcement personnel are, should be able to carry a firearm in school. The voluntary nature of such a policy is vital however. The carrying of deadly force is not appropriate for everyone, as we all too painfully know. I believe that volunteers, tested, trained and licensed, however, would be a benefit toward the protection of our kids.

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Emelye

Jan-09-13 10:53 AM

As far as weapons bans are concerned, we all know from the dismal failure of drug bans that these laws don't work to keep firearms out of the hands of those who are motivated to get them. I also know that any such action below the federal level would be doomed because of the ease that state laws can be circumvented.

Our society is NOT clamoring for gun control. We are demanding VIOLENCE control. Controlling violence, however, is a task that requires cultural change and difficult choices. That's why guns become the target. They erroneously simplify the issue. What's lost is a real solution to the problems. Last month’s vile criminals in Connecticut and Webster NY were both legally proscribed from owning and possessing deadly weapons yet they were able to get them. Existing gun control laws didn't work.

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Emelye

Jan-09-13 10:59 AM

The road toward reducing violence in our culture is an extremely complex and difficult one. Some of the solutions might even violate our free speech rights. The process to find real solutions is bound to be very expensive.

We need to push for research and science to determine which people are likely to become violent, if that's at all possible. The cost of this is perfectly justifiable under the government's mandate to protect its citizens. We need to allow these costs to be incurred.

We can also do more on a federal level to prevent unstable people from acquiring firearms. Individual state laws aren't sufficient. I think the federal government shouldn't register and license firearms. They don't do the harm, the people using them do. Thus I think that a federal license, granted after training and a rigorous background check is completed (similar to NYS handgun permit process) should be required for all semi-automatic firearms purchasers. License the shooter, not the tool

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Overdrive

Jan-09-13 1:20 PM

Very amusing...so far, Jazzie's comment "Albany is the capitol of NY" got six disagrees because Albany is the CAPITAL of NY and five agrees for the same reason! :)

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apologeticsnow

Jan-09-13 1:27 PM

Jazzie, when you say, "Thanks for your brash judgment of me, reverend Melody, since I have no belief in your God Squad system, I guess I am evil and have no morals, even though I've never been to jail, never cheated on my taxes and don't drink or smoke. Another great reason I don't believe in religion," how did I judge when I wrote, "Jazzie, it is not that God can't prevent it, but man in his depravity rejects God. Rejecting God who is good will result in evil of all kinds from natural to moral evil. Creation was mande very good, but man rejected the command God gave and the consequences of that choice have been overwhelming too overwhelming for man to solve. The only answer is what Jesus did to overcome it. Outside of that there is not hope to overcome evil. It will always be with us in this life. The life outside of ourselves is the only life in which there is hope for us in this evil sin-saturated world."

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apologeticsnow

Jan-09-13 1:31 PM

Jazzie, Monkey judges me to be homophobic, bigoted, intolerant, extreme, etc. When you accused me of judging you, point out exactly from this thread the specific judgmental statement I made of you.

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apologeticsnow

Jan-09-13 1:33 PM

Emelye, I too like Loneriderrr1 agree with your 10: 48 AM statement.

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apologeticsnow

Jan-09-13 4:05 PM

MrFreeze, what exactly is the nature and content of the kind of counseling you recommend? Why is it needed? What is the problem? Who do you recomnend to do the counseling?

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apologeticsnow

Jan-09-13 4:21 PM

Em, when you say, "Leae it to Mr McGinnis to generate a lot of heat," First thank you for calling me by my name. Second, how do you know that it is not light that is being generated? I'm not looking to bring in heat to the discussion of the protection of children, the sanctity of life and problem of evil. "I notice he combines two issues, gun control and state supported religion, into one letter, confusing things and making a rather tenuous connection." The absence of good is evil. The mandated absence of second amendment sets people up to be in a vulnerable position. "Gun free zones" are more safe for criminals than for law abiding citizens. God free zone is a lack of good for evil to prosper in a variety of forms philosophically (the indoctrination of naturalism) morally (situational ethics, vlaues clarification and moral relativism and socially ( with the extreme taking place place at Sandy Hook). The absence of that which is good invites evil to re

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Jazzie

Jan-09-13 4:26 PM

Overdrive, what's your point? Both are referenced as being a part of government, and this section is full of cpeling irers ivoryday. Sew watts yore point?

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apologeticsnow

Jan-09-13 4:27 PM

Em, shouldn't we step back and look at the origianl intent of the those who wrote the Constitution rather than what we in the 21st century want it to say? If prayer was done daily in school up until 1962 and nothing during our founding ever was meant to ban prayer in school and by the school, then isn't reasonable to believe that judges who reversed the 100 year plus policy were pushing their own agenda and not being objective by the standards and meanings the amendment was first written? .

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LindaD

Jan-09-13 6:11 PM

How would prayer in schools have prevented the Newtown school massacre, Rev Mel, since Adam Lanza wasn't a current student at that school? Are you claiming that his psychological problems would have been "fixed" by mumbling the same few words daily?

What would have prevented the Newtown school massacre, Rev Mel, was Adam Lanza NOT being able to get his hands on the guns he used to murder those children and their teachers and principal.

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apologeticsnow

Jan-09-13 9:19 PM

Linda, when you say, "How would prayer in schools have prevented the Newtown school massacre, Rev Mel, since Adam Lanza wasn't a current student at that school? Are you claiming that his psychological problems would have been "fixed" by mumbling the same few words daily?" I made no such assertion of saying that prayer would have prevented the murder. I was just observing the absense of prayer to God Almighty and that the absence of God who is good, opens up evil to set in. In the absence of prayer we leave ourselves more vulnerable to evil than we already are. That's all I was saying.

"What would have prevented the Newtown school massacre, Rev Mel, was Adam Lanza NOT being able to get his hands on the guns he used to murder those children and their teachers and principal." A gun free gun control zone sure didn't stop him. A trained well armed administrator or teacher would have been much more likely to stop it than citizens stuck in a gun free zone ob

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BudZilla

Jan-09-13 11:12 PM

Praying to Thor would have been as effective as praying to Yahweh.

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apologeticsnow

Jan-10-13 5:16 PM

Monkey, when you say, "The argument that since no one had tried to stop school prayer before 1962 it was intended by the founding fathers, is just ridiculous." How so? Haven't you read what Thomas Jefferson and Joeph Story have said concerning the reading the Constitution especially as it pertains to the court? In case you have not, the courts outrageous and distorted intepretation is totally contrary to the orginal meaning of the amendment the rogue judges twisted for their agenda.

"Every case the Supreme Court hears is a refinement of law and of understanding of the Constitution." Who says? You? You mean that the Constitution was not clear enough when it was written and explained thoroughly enough through the Federalist Papers that judges far removed from the setting in which it was written know more about it than the ones who wrote it.

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formerlyphil

Jan-11-13 12:32 PM

man how about all that amish gun violence?

the amish have a lot of God & a lot of guns. they're shooting each other up at an alarming rate!

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Pharyngula

Jan-11-13 1:46 PM

Or all nine of them.

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Pharyngula

Jan-11-13 1:57 PM

Joseph Story "“The remaining part of the [Article VI, paragraph 3 of the U.S. Constitution] declares, that ‘no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.’ This clause is not introduced merely for the purpose of satisfying the scruples of many persons, who feel an invincible repugnance to any religious test, or affirmation. It had a higher objective: to cut off for ever every pretence [sic] of any alliance between church and state in the national government.”[16]"

Good one!!

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Pharyngula

Jan-11-13 2:12 PM

Snow As you have brought up Jefferson, a short time ago you asked "Phar, give the evidence of Thomas Jefferson wanting to impose on us the progressive income tax of the Communist Manifesto which Obama wants. Demonstrate how he used the term progressive when it came to taxes as Obama did."

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Pharyngula

Jan-11-13 2:14 PM

And I replied with ""In 1811, two years after Jefferson left the Presidency, Jefferson wrote a letter to General Thaddeus Kosciuszko, a hero of the American Revolution. Jefferson said that he supported taxes (then tariffs, since there was no income tax yet) falling entirely on the wealthy. As Jefferson explained: “The farmer will see his government supported, his children educated, and the face of this country made a paradise by the contributions of the rich alone, without his being called on to spend a cent from his earnings.”

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Pharyngula

Jan-11-13 2:15 PM

And "Letter to Madison 1785 "Another means of silently lessening the inequality of property is to exempt all from taxation below a certain point, and to tax the higher portions of property in geometrical progression as they rise. " Written after walking a mile in France with a poor woman."

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Pharyngula

Jan-11-13 2:16 PM

Why the sudden shyness?

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